Episode 65 - Three Questions with Mariska Breland: Resiliency, Partnerships, and Making Things That Matter

In this episode of Three Questions, I sit down with my good friend and longtime business partner, Mariska Breland, for a conversation about resilience, chronic illness, creativity, partnership, and what it really means to build a life around what matters most. Mariska shares lessons from living with MS, navigating breast cancer, moving across the world to Malta, and building multiple successful businesses along the way.

Together, we explore why adaptability may be a better goal than resilience, how honest conversations strengthen relationships, and why creating meaningful work requires knowing what to pursue… and what to let go.

In This Episode You'll Hear:

• Why adaptation may be more valuable than “being resilient”
• How difficult conversations can strengthen partnerships and relationships
• The difference between passion projects, distractions, and meaningful work

If this conversation leaves you with anything, I hope it’s this: what happens to us is only part of the story. What we choose to build next is where things get interesting.

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Transcript

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Welcome to Three Questions, where critical thinking is king, and my opinions and the opinions of my guest today are just here to support your learning and understanding. Hey, I'm your host Meghann, and I'm so honored you clicked on Three Questions today because I have a very special guest. I know I say that every time I have a guest, but my guests are special.

And, uh, with no further ado, I want to introduce you all to my business partner, the inventor of the Fused Ladder, a Pilates teacher extraordinaire, and that's just scratching the surface, Mariska Breland. Welcome to the podcast, 

Mariska Breland: Mariska. Thank you, Meghann Koppele Duffy. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: So it's so funny. Always when I introduce people, there, it's so many things a person does, so I always put, like, a kind of a real big bio and all this stuff in the notes so people can learn more about you.

Because as I said, we're just scratching the surface. Now, it is funny. Mariska and I have... Ooh, have we been business... We've been business partners at the Neuro Studio since 2014, but did we meet in 2012? 

Mariska Breland: I think we met in 2013. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: 2013. You know I'm bad at dates. You know I'm bad at months. Um, it's just so funny because I feel like I've known you for a lifetime, but I feel like we're just getting started.

So- True ... I'm gonna get right into question one for you. 

Mariska Breland: I don't know what the questions are, by the way. She didn't tell me anything, so. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Oh, I don't give anybody the questions. Nope. Well- 

Mariska Breland: Not 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: even me ... there was one instance, and we won't get into it, but... And what I want it to be, like, Mariska, when I interviewed my parents, you know, asking questions like that, it can catch people off guard.

I promise no questions will do that. That wasn't my intention. But I kind of want the unedited version. Um, uh, Mariska and I are both a little unedited. She's much more polished of a speaker than I am, so, uh, but you know, I'm sure we'll get some out of you. So anyway, you have lived with MS since 2002.

Correct. You are in remission from breast cancer. Correct. You have recently picked up and moved to Malta. Most people would describe any or one of those things as pretty life-altering. Um, those are just three things of the many things. So my question to you is something we talk about a lot.

What has all this taught, taught you about what actually matters, and what do most people get wrong about resiliency? That's the real piece I wanna get to. Ooh. 

Mariska Breland: This is hard. So, uh, this will probably be just train of thought because- Love it ... obviously I don't, I don't have the questions in advance. So, um, I think that stubbornness is a requirement, that you...

So I just actually finished a memoir, and my... It started off, when I started writing it, about living with MS, and it's totally not about that anymore because what it really ends up being about is my need to control things, and about how you actually don't have that much control. But- Over anything ... maybe we try to control the , maybe we try to control what we can.

So, um- Is that why 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: we get along so well? 

Mariska Breland: Maybe. We're both control freaks, and we both- Yeah ... want the world to work exactly how we want it to work. Yeah. So I think that, I mean, my very initial response to being diagnosed with MS was trying to control it, right? 'Cause I was just like, "Oh, I am going to diet and exercise my way out of this, and I'm never gonna have any symptoms."

And so I feel like a lot of my success has been through being very stubborn. But a 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: part 

Mariska Breland: of 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: res- Can I just interrupt you for a second? 'Cause I never, ever interrupt you. That's a joke. No, 

Mariska Breland: never. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Um, never. I have to be... I am wanting being defensive for you, and stubbornness I don't think is a bad thing. But could we frame that in, were you stubborn or just cur- curious and not taking no for an answer, which I guess is stubborn.

But I just see you- Okay, so my mom- ... as a more curious person. Am 

Mariska Breland: I wrong? My mom would have, my mom would have ca- called it something different. So my mom would have said, like, that I had stick-to-it-iveness. Ooh. So it's like I would just, like, if I'm up against, like, a brick wall, I'm just like, just keep going at it because I'm like...

You know, they were like, "Oh, it's, you know, God's plan." I'm like, "Fuck that, I've got my own plan." Like, this is, Mariska has Mariska's plan, and Mariska would like to, like all the world to fit into my plan. Um, so I think that, like, that stick-to-it-iveness, that stubbornness or whatever, I think that's really important.

But I think that the l- the later two things, so the breast cancer and then the moving to Malta, were really about sometimes you don't have any control, and then it's like that, you know, what are you gonna do with your one life, you know? It's like, do I want to- You know, if, if I only live as long as my mom lives- lived, I would only have like nine years left.

So what do I wanna do with the last nine years if that's all I'm getting? And because I have had progression of MS stuff over years, because even doing things as perfectly, and I definitely wasn't, but even if you're doing things as perfectly- Oh, you- ... as people would say you- You do. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: You've done everything that you've been told to do to get it better, and you and I have then said that wasn't enough and figured out more.

I mean- 

Mariska Breland: Right ... 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: am I 

Mariska Breland: wrong? But, you know, even, yes, but it's like even doing stuff like that, it's like 20... You know, I can look back and say I had symptoms in 1999, so looking back over 27 years of like having a condi- a medical condition, you're probably gonna have some s- stuff add up over time, you know? So, um, I always joke that I moved to the most inhospitable place to have MS.

It's like Malta, it's a tiny, it's a rock. It's like everything is steep. There's stairs everywhere. It's like there's tripping hazards. But I'm like, if, what is my favorite thing in the world to do is like swimming in the ocean, and if I have dual citizenship and I can move somewhere where I can go swimming in the ocean for six months out of the year every single day, like I wanna do that.

Like sign me up for that. Yeah, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: and I don't- You know? Maybe people might not know that Mariska has a, her mom is from the Netherlands, so she has dual citizenship. 'Cause some people will be like, "Malta? Why'd she move to Malta?" And I, you know what I always respond? Why not? Why do people move to Florida? Like- 

Mariska Breland: Yeah

Meghann Koppele Duffy: and I, I know that you focused on- Uh, a big 

Mariska Breland: reason for Malta was- Oh, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: go ahead ... 

Mariska Breland: oh, a big reason for Malta was- getting on, like, the European health system, getting on the public health system Mm-hmm Because I'd had both the MS and the cancer, you know? And so when we were looking at- The cancer ... the cancer, and looking at, like, the politics stuff and the constant, like, "Let's get rid of the Affordable Care Act.

Let's get rid of whatever," or, like, premiums are gonna be, like, thousands and thousands of dollars. And you have multiple pre-existing conditions. And we were... I have many, I have many pre-existing conditions. And, you know, moving to somewhere where I immediately can get on the public health system and literally have all of...

You know, you pay into Social Security, but it's like, but then all of my treatments, all hospital visits, all whatever is free under- Yeah ... you know, my paying. Like, I'm literally paying, like, 2,000 euros for the whole year, which is about 2500 US dollars is what I'm paying in to get everything free. It's, uh, s- it sort of...

When Brian and I were looking to move out of DC, we were originally thinking New York, which is- She is 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: also married to a Brian, by the way 

Mariska Breland: I know. It's very confusing. Um, we were talking about moving, and I was, like, doing the numbers of, like, if Brian went off and wanted to start his own thing, and I'm just like, okay, so the co- the deductible on the insurance was, like, 7,000.

This is, like, buying on the Affordable Care Act. And then the monthly was, like, 1,500, 1,600, and that was, like, a medium policy, and I'm used to, like, we need the best policy that you could possibly get. And we were looking at that, and I was like, "I don't think we can afford to stay here for Brian to do what he had wanted to do," which was- Yeah

sort of start his own consulting thing. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: So, like, and the, the, we hit the beginning of the question. I know that was, like, kind of a compound question there, but I wanna get into the resilience piece, because nothing annoys you more than people telling you, "Oh, my God, you're so tough and strong," and that. But before I even let you speak, I just wanna say something about you, and based off what you were saying is talking about the healthcare, being fearful of, you know, your mom passed young, having cancer, not having insurance, not being able to afford.

I admire how you, instead of letting the fear freeze you, you took action and created the life you wanted to live. And so people often label you as very resistant and strong, and I, I know that, that bothers you a lot. Can you share a bit more of that to help people communicate with other people like you better?

Does that question make sense? 

Mariska Breland: Okay, that's interesting. Yeah. Um. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Do you know why I'm asking it? I 

Mariska Breland: think it's one of... Yeah, I mean, I think I understand why people want to know. Yeah. And the best I can say is that- Really, most everybody handles what life throws at them in some sort of way, right? It's like I very specifically chose not to have children because that seems like a lot that I wasn't willing to do or didn't want to do, so but I know that I would've done it, right?

Mm-hmm. Like, I have no desire to watch a kid play soccer, but if I had a kid, I could watch them play soccer, you know? It's like, so for me, I got medical conditions and I have to, like, live around them, and the big reason for moving to Malta is I didn't feel like I was doing a very good job of living, that I was doing a really good job of being in my little cocoon and I had all my shit figured out and it was like nothing was ever really challenging me and I spent a lot of time at home, and I was losing stuff because I wasn't active enough, and I didn't want to have that.

But- Mm ... um, I had this really interesting conversation with my new neurologist in Malta, and he was looking at how much Baclofen I take, and he was like, he's like, "That's a lot." He's like, "Are, aren't..." He's like, "Are you tired all the time?" And I'm like, "How the hell do I know if I'm tired all the time?" I'm like, "I'm in chemical menopause.

I've been on this medication for, like, a decade." 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: What does that even mean? 

Mariska Breland: What does tired mean? I'm like, I have no idea. It's like, to me, I just, I don't... You know, I think I v- v- what people see is they see me, like, doing things and whatever, and it's like with the... They don't see the Mariska sitting on her ass watching a lot of Netflix, you know?

It's like- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: On sending gifs back and forth. Are they gifs or memes that we send on Instagram? Or are they just Instagram 

Mariska Breland: posts? Well, we send, we send posts and reels, and then- Reels, yes ... we, the gifs are- Did you 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: see the two dog ones I sent today? 

Mariska Breland: I didn't yet. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Oh. 

Mariska Breland: I'm sure they're fantastic. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Very good. They're good ones.

But I think how- Um- ... I asked the question based off what you said back to me, I don't want people to understand resilience. I want, I, I, I- I wanna people to have the insight that I do, 'cause I think when you look at someone dealing with a lot of things and seemingly deal with it, we're like, "Oh, I admire them.

They're so resilient." But w- I know firsthand how that kind of annoys you a little bit. Um, I don't know- Yeah ... I think I kind of want people to hear what that a- what you actually hear when they say that. Because when I understood that, it completely changed the way I talk to people. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. I 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: mean, I just think- Is that a better way to ask the question?

Mariska Breland: I mean, I guess to me it's like I didn't really have a choice. Mm. It wasn't something I, like, practiced. I haven't practiced resilience. It's just, like, you're like... I mean, in terms of, like, my medical history, which you know probably better than anyone 'cause you've always had to sub for me, I mean, I have had the absolute shit beaten out of me in terms of stuff that has gone wrong.

Like, constantly, to where I'm just like, "Ar- again. Like, what are we doing here?" So, um It's almost like, well, I do dissociate. So I think that that's what my therapists always tell me, is that I'm really good at dissociating- Well, didn't we talk about it? ... and not actually feeling my feelings. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Didn't we 

Mariska Breland: talk about this?

Like, I was- It's, but I've decided it's, it's necessary for me. Yeah. And so part of my resilience is that I can like... It's not healthy. I don't recommend it, but I can sort of separate everything- Or is it healthy for you? I've, I've decided it's healthy for me, because I'm very good at it according to therapists, is that I can just put everything into a little, "Okay, whatever."

Like, today I was going, uh, we went to the beach this morning, and I was going into the water, and I was like, "I'm probably gonna fall going into the water." Because you know how, like, it's hard to walk into the water when you're going- Yeah ... to the beach? Yeah. If your balance is not great, it's like extra hard.

Yeah. And I, like, totally fell, and I was just like, "I don't know any of these people," so if they're, like, judging me, I'm like, "I don't know them. I'm never gonna see them again." Yeah. It was fine. You know? 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: So- 

Mariska Breland: So ... 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: in order to be resilient, if I could repeat it back to you so I'm learning and everybody else is learning, it's, I'll quote my grandmother, "Everybody has their own mishegas."

Totally. Maybe it's stress with kids, sweat- stress with health. It's how can we compartmentalize things and take one step at a time? And you gotta make choices every day. Right. I think the choices you made most recently, 'cause people are like, "Are you stressed that Mariska moved to Malta?" I'm like, "No. She lived in DC.

We didn't see each other every day. We talked. She's a night person. I'm a morning person. We're gonna make it work." Actually works out- She's happier ... 

Mariska Breland: spectacularly. Yeah. Yeah. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Like, you're happier. You're living more. Like, to me, that's the be- don't you want the people you love to be happy? You know? So I, I kind of, maybe the lesson we all can learn is maybe don't wait till things get catastrophic to live the life you wanna live.

Is that a good lesson? Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: I mean, I, you know, people always say, and it's, like, almost, you know, so predictable now that people say, like, you don't, on your deathbed you don't wish you worked more or whatever. And it's like, no, I've like, I've loved my work. I d- but- I have not spent the right amount of time doing not work things.

Mm. And I think that that actually is something that people can fall into if they do really like what they do, Meghann, where you're just like- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Well, I don't know if you listen to the podcast with my dad. I don't know if we addressed it, but my dad and I both talk about the fact that we like to work and rest and hang out with our family.

I said, "Dad, we need a hobby. We gotta figure something out, dude." And he's like, "Yeah, I gotta figure something out 'cause I don't know how much longer your mom can s- stand me in the house all the time." That's the retirement thing. She 

Mariska Breland: pretends she's sleeping sometimes, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Mariska. 

Mariska Breland: That's, that's very creative.

I'll, like, take note. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Yeah, she'll say if my dad... 'Cause my dad is like me, so we have a lot of energy all the time. She'll say she, like, if she's in bed on her iPad, she'll just put her iPad down and pretend she's sleeping. 

Mariska Breland: I think that's, that sounds like resilience to me. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: There you go. There you go. 

Mariska Breland: It's adaptation, right?

It's like, it's all about adaptation. So I have this new friend in Malta who's going- Hold on. Wait. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Go back to what you just said 'cause that was, I feel like that was the answer to the question. That's why I love this stuff. Of it? Adaptation. It's like- Right ... why can't we just- It's, it's you 

Mariska Breland: adapt ... 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: adapt? It's so 

Mariska Breland: hard.

And it's, I definitely don't want to adapt to certain things. Like, I do not- I see ... like, big no. Like, when people... Like, so, um, my friend Stacy, who is the Bravo TV person that I went to- Ah ... um, the casting agent for reality TV shows, which is so cool. Yeah. So went to the beach with her this morning and she was saying, like, um, forget where it was, but she was like, "You should..."

Oh, for the bus. She was like, "You should get, like, a handicap thing for the bus." And I'm like No, I don't wanna do that. She's like, "You should totally do that." And I'm like, "No, uh, no, I don't wanna do that." Like, it's alm- Because yes, adaptation- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Is there a reason, 'cause it's then labeling you as disabled? And remember, you, you like told me years ago, you said, "Never describe me disabled or decreasing disability."

And I said, "Got it." 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: That's a term I won't- Even 

Mariska Breland: though I totally, I legitimately have- I respect it ... I legitimately have, like, walking disability. I legitimately have balance disability. Like, legitimately I have it. Like, I can't now safely walk downstairs without a rail. Like, I- Mm ... that's something I'm working on.

But it's like, it's also, like, a fear thing, so I'm, like, freaked out, like, about it. So I've had to come up with adapt- you know, my adaptations. But it's like as long as I can... It, this is, like, getting into Mariska's deep-seated need for, like, therapy resolvent. Resolvent? Is that a word? Resolution. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Mariska, I, I know you be as comfortable, you share as much or as little as you have, but know that it's gonna help people, if that helps.

Mariska Breland: Right. So I very much like to be invisible. I don't like, I don't want people looking at me, unless they're like, "Your hair looks amazing." Like, that's fine. But I don't want people watching me and judging me. I think that's the thing. I mean, nobody wants to be judged. It's movement-wise- That's everyone's biggest-

not appearance ... fear. Yeah. And I think a big part of it, which was interesting because writing the memoir really, like, brought this out, because I didn't really recognize it, that, you know- I am out here selling myself as a good mover and a good mover with MS, and if I can't live up to that, then I'm sort of like, my whole identity feels like it's, that I'm losing it or that I'm, you know, it's being attacked, so.

Meghann Koppele Duffy: But you are living up to that. What does a good mover mean? 

Mariska Breland: I mean- Like, look 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: at, okay, 

Mariska Breland: look at me ... I'm not as good of a mover as I was. I think that's the thing. It's like- Yeah, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: but 

Mariska Breland: like ... losing s- abilities, which a lot of mine were changing what I wanted to work on. 'Cause we had this conversation about the, when I had my mastectomy and, um, I had frozen shoulder at the same time.

And then my trainer, who I really liked and I worked with for like five years, like twice a week, was like trying to push me to lift a heavier sh- shoulder press than I wanted to, and I was just like, "I feel like he's not seeing me where I am in this moment," 'cause he knows that I could've lifted, like, heavier before.

And then I was also like, you know, I can do all this badass stuff, but my walking is definitely getting negatively affected. And then that was the thing where I was just like, "I'm gonna change everything," which is very- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Oh my, I told that 

Mariska Breland: story 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: yesterday ... 

Mariska Breland: adaptation. Were 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: you telling stories about me? Do, do you remember...

No, no, no, but it was, it was, it was actually, I was sharing with a student s- a lesson I was trying to relate to them and sharing a mistake I made. 'Cause remember we were talking about you making some changes in your routine, but I kinda didn't say anything, and then I said something. And you know, the one thing about our partnership is we have hard conversations.

Mariska Breland: Yeah. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: And I'm so grateful you're willing- Where 

Mariska Breland: we were talking about, we were talking about two totally different things. Yeah, yeah. 'Cause I remember that, that... So you had- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Well, hold on. Let me finish the story about you first and then I... Of when you then kind of came to the realization of that and I said to my husband after reading the text, "Ugh."

He's like, "What are you huffing about?" And I go, "Because I've been telling Mariska this for years." And Brian Duffy looked at me and goes, "Way to make that about you." And I said to him, "F you. You don't know what you're talking about." And I sat down and I said, "Holy shit, I just made Mariska's journey about me."

So it was s- to me it was, it leads us into question two. It leads into your adaptability, change, and our partnership of hard conversations and how I made one of your moments of being adaptable about me 

Mariska Breland: I, so because I didn't know in the time that that was true, but- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Oh, you w- you didn't hear me gossiping to my husband- Right

behind your back. Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: Right. But we did have that time where it was like, I can't remember, like it was my shoulder or 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: something. Oh, it was two different messages. I was reading 

Mariska Breland: one- It was two messages. Yeah. So- '

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Cause we text a lot. 

Mariska Breland: Right. And it was just an ongoing conversation. Yeah. And so I had said something about my shoulder, but then I sent a really funny- Oh, yeah

like video, but I don't even remember what the video was about. Video. But you were responding to my shoulder 'cause you thought the question I had asked, which was about the video, was about my shoulder- Yeah. I know ... and I was just like, "Meghann, stop trying to fix me." And then you had thought I'd asked for your help, and it was, it became a thing.

And- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Well, maybe that was, but that was the precipice of that conversation. But I felt like why I shifted gears on that is I, I really wanna talk about, we're gonna circle back to question one, how I go, you know, Mariska, my conversations get chaotic. I wanted to talk about the tough conversations, the partnerships, admitting we're wrong, and actually seeing each other.

So when the trainer didn't see you, and then you communicated to me, I didn't see you and what you actually need. I saw myself first. I saw myself first. So I love that you brought that point of when we're communicating with others is it's always breakdown in communication. So something I always think about now when I'm communicating with people is I need to see them first, right?

And I actually had a funny intro to question two, and, and I'm not gonna go there now. Um- What do you think- Well, now I'm curious. Oh. Well... 

Mariska Breland: Well, now I need to 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: know. I was gonna, I was gonna lead with, well, I have to ask you the obvious question, you know. What is the best part of being my business partner? And so I was gonna make it about myself, but I told the story instead.

And, um, I was gonna remind you that we're recorded, so any nice things you said about me are gonna be on record, right? But I don't have to make that joke. But I do think what I love about our partnership is we don't always agree, but we always do our best to hear each other. And we don't disagree a lot, to be honest.

Right. Um, but we have, I think we have grown as people. We have rubbed off on each other. I, I, I am really proud of our business relationship. Really. 

Mariska Breland: I think we, like, complement each other in that we have slightly different interests. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Mm-hmm. 

Mariska Breland: You know? And I think, um, because I was trying to describe it, like, and, and write about it, I was like, we at this point have differing degrees of ambition.

So it's not like a differing degrees of work ethic- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Mm-mm ... 

Mariska Breland: necessarily. It's different ambitions. Mm-hmm. It's like different, like what do we want? So like w- as we run the mentorship together, Meghann's, like, got all of her research and all of her whatever, and I'm like, "Let me talk about how to move to an island," because that is my level 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: of ambition.

You're not giving yourself credit. But- 

Mariska Breland: But you know what I mean. Yeah, yeah. It's like we're in a different, we're in different places. So I'm older than you, and I have MS, and you work tirelessly and I work tiredly, and that's just kind of- Well, you know what was interesting- ... how things are sometimes ... 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: don't you think the conversation we had last time you were here about you're like w- when we were talking about ambitions and things, we didn't understand, we thought...

I think we both assumed each other's ambitions. And we were talking about, like, you're very political, and you're, you're, something that drives you, um, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the world should be fair and equitable, and i- it's something that really sits with you. And I said, "I feel the same way about movement in the sense of people deserve more.

What they're getting is not enough. I feel like I want, I, I have to give this information 'cause, like, I don't want people being more disabled than we could." And we both realized where our passions were and what our ambitions were. I felt like that was probably the most, I feel like that conversation landed hard with me.

Did it land as hard with you? 

Mariska Breland: I feel like I knew we were gonna have to have a conversation, and- I feel like I prepped for it because I was nervous about how it was gonna be taken, because I think- Yeah ... that we sometimes, it's not that we have really differing goals, it's just that I'm like- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Well, we do have different goals.

That's- Well, we do, but- But our ultimate goal is building our business. 

Mariska Breland: Right. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: Right. And I think, you know, it was just like I wanted more of something and you wanted more of something else, and it was just sort of like, how are we gonna meet in the middle on it? So I get very nervous having any kind of confrontation, like sick to my stomach nervous or whatever.

And we've... But I feel like we've, what we've always done well is we have the conversation in the right time. Yeah. Like, we might not have it in the moment. Like, I might even- Not in the heat ... be in there. Right. It's like, okay, I feel a certain way, and then I need to understand why I feel a certain way. You know, it's like, why am I having these feelings about this?

And, you know- But it goes 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: back to what you said about the trainer, being seen and feeling seen, right? 

Mariska Breland: Right. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: And I think also the conversations are important, and I, oh my God, I was talking to my sister about this on the phone about, like, she was talking about things with her kids and our family and dynamics, and I was like, "Yeah, but Kim, there's a flip side of that."

Like, I never saw conflict in the house. Mom and Dad never fought. This, like, you and your husband, who was our high school sweetheart, I had called her once. Brian and I had a fight, and I was kind of spiraling, and she's like, "You don't think John and I ever fight?" But I don't, I was always afraid of conflict.

Y- I feel like our partnership has made, and I'm never comfortable with it, I feel like we have been able to, like, have those uncomfortable conversations, and they're hard. And I'm sure people listening to this, like, conversations are hard with people. And I, I think finding a partner, it reminded me of something my dad said with marriage.

You've got a, I have weaknesses, Meghann. Your mother filled those exact weaknesses. And I feel like I was like, oh my God, Brian and I are the same. You're Brian and you're the same, and even our business partnerships, where I struggle, you soar and lift me up. Where you struggle, I soar and lift you up. And I was, like, listening to my dad, I'm like, huh, I feel like that's me and Mariska as well.

Yeah. Which is why it worked. So the question, what builds a good partnership? What is a partnership? And to me, it's finding someone that fills your gaps and hears you and sees you. What's your take on the question? I know it's a, kind of a vague question. I think, 

Mariska Breland: like, something, 'cause I have two businesses, so I have two business partners.

Mm-hmm. 'Cause I have Meghann for The Neuro Studio, and then Fused Ladder is the same business partner that I've had for even longer, 'cause we're talking about when I had studios. Mm-hmm. 'Cause the same person is my Fused Ladder business partner. Shout out to Rox. Yeah, we love her. Shout out to Rox. Um, she's in Greece right now on vacation.

Oh, love it. Living, living her best life. So I think, like, one, my, I've never saw my parents fight once, like ever. Hmm. So I also don't feel like I learned proper, like, conflict resolution because I never had seen it. Um- And so if you have kids, please fight in front of them and make up in front of them and like, so that they can actually see how it works.

I think like an important thing is that each person recognizes what talents the other person has, you know? And it's like, I forget what we were talking about, um It was something, it was some work-related thing, and we're both like, "Okay, neither one of us wanna do that, so we should hire somebody else to do it."

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: But it was like, it was something that w- I was like, "Well, we don't need to pay somebody to do that," and you didn't wanna do it, and I didn't wanna do it, and we're just like, "We're both gonna hate it if we have to do this." But then 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I think that was probably the first time I stuck up for myself. Not that you ever, you've never bullied me into doing something.

I'm the kind of person, "Well, I'll just do it." But then I'm like, "What am I, making myself a martyr? No, I don't-" Yeah ... "actually wanna do that." So I think that's, like, big for me. I don't like to let people down, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm also, we're trying to build a financially s- good business, so I'm like, "Well, we can't afford to pay for someone," but luckily you and I have built a successful business that, that we can do that, you know?

Yeah. Something you are better at than I am, and I've gotten better at, is saying no. Nope, Meghann. 

Mariska Breland: Oh, I'm so good at it. I am super good at it. Like, and that's actually something that MS taught me, was v- delegate. Like, I was just like, "You know what?" And this was, like, in my previous, like, video production career, and I was like- Mm-hmm

a creative director and I had people worked under me. And I was like, "I don't wanna do that. Let's have somebody else do it." Or, like, if you have to do, like, certificates for somebody and put everybody's name on it, that's like you pay somebody's kid $10 an hour to do it, you know? And they think that's amazing.

And- Yeah ... that seems like way better use of time. And I know you have, like, somebody clean your house. I don't have someone clean my house, but, um, I definitely have in the past, and so it's, you know, I like making- Well, for 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: me it was like if she can do it in an hour and a half- 

Mariska Breland: Oh, totally. How much money 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: can you make- While, while she's doing that-

in an hour and a half? ... I'm working, you know? Yeah. But it was so funny, like, it's like, "Oh, God, I feel guilty," I'm like, around the house, and you, you were like, "You're working." You're- 

Mariska Breland: Right. And it's like how does that add up, you know? 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: It's like how does the math work? Cross, cost-benefit analysis. Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: Exactly.

That's fancy. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Yeah. So 

Mariska Breland: I think- But it's like I like doing- Go ahead ... more of the kind of creative, like, I like to make stuff. I like to make little products, and like workshops, and I like editing, and I like writing, and it's like, and you love to be in the weeds, like, with clients, and I'm just like, "I am a client," you know?

So- Yeah ... not that I don't see people, but it's like I like to do a lot of the work by yourself kind 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: of work. You're an ideas person. Did you- I am. How'd you know that was not... You, you, you jumped into question three already. 

Mariska Breland: I did? 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I love it. But this is the flow. We go with the flow here. So what, based off what you just said, you're a creative thinker.

You're an artist. You paint, stuff like that. So you've created the fuse ladder, which is a piece of equipment. Sometimes you see it over my shoulder In the f- you... Oh, this is your- It's right there ... older fuse ladder model. Um, that's the newer one that you just saw with Mariska. Um, you co-founded the Neuro Studio with Moel.

You've owned multiple Pilates studios in your time, uh, educational programs. And something that has been key in our partnerships is understanding that we have a lot of ideas, but we can't execute them all. 

Mariska Breland: I 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: know. So how- That's like the hardest 

Mariska Breland: thing for 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: me I know. I know, no, no, no. It's so hard. Yeah, but let's give you credit where credit's due.

How do you decide what to focus on, and how do you know when something is just worth your full creative... So what's worth your full creative energy, and then what is something that might just be an interesting distraction, a hobby versus focusing on for work? I think you've gotten better at this. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. I 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: don't know if it's- But 

Mariska Breland: then I still have to have my side- It's gonna be a work in progress

creative stuff. It is a work in progress. I think one thing that I just feel like I just wanna hammer into people's heads over and over and over again is there's a different between- difference between a passion project and low-hanging fruit. And I'm just like, "People," like, because we do our mentorship and I'm just like, "Low-hanging fruit."

And they're like, "I have this, like, grand..." And I'm like, "Low-hanging fruit." And my husband's starting his consulting business now, and I'm like, "That's a cool idea, but 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: what-" She printed, we get a picture of a low-hanging fruit and put it on the wall. 

Mariska Breland: I'm like, "Low-hanging fruit." And I think, like, if you are like we are, where we're very much a niche, right?

It's like, yes, we could do back pain and we could do whatever, but it's like- Pick, if you're passionate about something, you are going to be successful at it. So we chose this lane, we've stayed in this lane, and we've really been good at... W- we weren't always good, but we learned our lesson about not cannibalizing your own business by- Yeah

having too many other- Co- competing against ourselves ... things. Right. It's like competing against yourself is a good way to, like, mess up your business for a long time- Burn out ... 'cause it took us... Yeah, well, burn your list, you know? And it was like that was, like, a hard thing that it took a long time to kind of come back from, was when we had made a business decision and m- were doing something that we normally wouldn't do and we weren't focusing on our main products, and then it's like it really affected our main products.

And so then- Yeah, we, we lost focus ... everything kind of comes back to that. Everything comes back to that. It's like how does this feed into the main product? So now everything... And this is what Meghann always has to remind me of, because I've got all these ideas and I'm still, like, wanting to make new stuff and create new stuff, and she's like, "How do we put that into the ecosystem that- Yeah

feeds the Neuro Studio as opposed to a- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: But it's also been a challenge- Wouldn't it be cool? ... to not harness your creativity, and I felt like in the past I would say, "No, not now." And then I, it was like hearing my voice, I'm like, "Number one, we are partners." And when I would say, "No, not now," it's 'cause I knew I had to execute that vision rather than saying, "Love that idea.

How can we make that work within this?" But also, guys, keep in mind, right, Mariska, we've been at this for over 10 years. Right. If you're starting out, niche down hard. You can do a million things, just do one. So I love... This circles back to what you said earlier of you're finding hobbies, you're going to the beach.

So, like, I feel like what has been that switch with realizing not all your creativity has to be monetized?

Mariska Breland: So for me, because I've always had a creative job- Mm-hmm ... right? So it's like my, like, my favorite class in school was always art, so I took art as my elective from, like, seventh grade when you could have an elective. It was my elective every year. Mm-hmm. It was always art. And then when I've done lots of drawing and painting and stuff, it's when I didn't have another creative outlet.

So I was doing a job that wasn't terribly creative or, you know, things were slow and I was... Or it wasn't getting, like, a kind of creative, like, hit. Um, and then I would go back to doing something. So when within the business I can figure out ways to make things, because I always say, like, I like to have a thing that I can say, "Well, I made this.

I made this thing. Here, it, it's, it's perfect and it's finished, and here you go." What's the- That's always been... Yeah, that's always been, like, what I love to do. It's like I've created something. And then what my biggest problem is, and it's a lot of people who are creative, it's like love to start things Less excited about finishing them.

So, um, but, you know, I feel like if you... I, I think I told you something about, like, wanting to do, um, a little bit of something on, like, l- load and gait or whatever, and I was like, "I need... It's a itch I need to scratch." So we need to figure out how to put it somewhere, because right now I really wanna do a workshop, and that might not be the best thing for us.

So we have to figure out how I can scratch that itch. I kind of have- So I think, like- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I kind of have the loose idea of where it's going to fit in- 

Mariska Breland: Yeah ... 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: based off how Saturday goes. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. And we do, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: like I think- So stay tuned, people, 'cause it's gonna be great. Yeah. It will. And that brings us back to the partnership question.

So I love when people can get vulnerable in a way that can actually be helpful to others and meaningful to learn, not just vulnerability for the sense of vulnerability, you know? That makes us both uncomfortable. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. Right? We're like, "Not doing that." 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: But loving the fact that you're like, "I love to make things.

I like to create things. I like to start things," it's hard for you to finish them. For me, I am a finisher. I'm an applications cat. I get in the nuance. Is it actually working? So our partnership works because you help me lift my head up and say, "Hey, psst, psst, shh, lift your damn head up. Look at over there.

Oh, it's lovely over there." So I feel like if you're thinking about partnerships, whether it's a business, a spouse, a friend, have people that can fill the gaps that you don't have in a... Oh, what's the word I'm looking for, Mariska? In a supportive way, right? 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. Yeah. So at my... Like, shortly before my wedding, um, my husband had read me this story.

I don't know where it came from, but it was, like, in this little book, and it was, like, basically this concept of in a relationship, and it was, like, in that case, a marriage, that you have- a rock and you have a feather. And so the rock is like, Meghann's like the rock and I'm like the feather. I'm just, ooh, like sparkles and like swirl.

And you have to, it's like you can't really have two feathers in a business partnership, and you can't have two rocks either. Because if you have two rocks nothing's, nothing new is happening, nothing's... Not that Meghann wouldn't come up with new and innovative, she does it all the time. But if you have people who- But it's different though.

It's your- Yeah, if you, uh, you can't have two super creative flighty people. And not that I'm flighty, but I can be a little flighty. Um, that those two people are not going to... It's not gonna be successful, 'cause you need somebody who, like, will finish it. 'Cause I only finish stuff by having a deadline. That is the only way anything gets finished.

And I, I, you like 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: me to send you lists. 

Mariska Breland: Oh, I do. I'm like, "Meghann, just tell me exactly what you need me to do. Send me a list." Yeah. And then both Meghann and I are 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: actually- But I also think you, you can be a rock too, and I... You know what I'm saying? Yeah. So it's interesting, I, I, I get, I get defensive for my guests, 'cause I...

Listen, sometimes you can't see yourself like other people see you. So yes, you, you are a feather, but you're also a rock. 

Mariska Breland: But 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: one thing that you and I- I'm kind of a rock that can sometimes, well, you know, we... I was telling this story yesterday too, that I can't float ... It's a light, it's a 

Mariska Breland: light rock. It's like, it's...

I know that's so weird. It's like you're like kind of a lava rock ex- that's light. Mm-hmm. But lava rocks probably can float, and you don't know that 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: too. Oh, so I was telling my sister, Kim was like, "Oh yeah, but grandpa taught me how to swim." I'm like, "Ugh, he didn't teach me how to swim." Meghann, n- I was like, "Nobody taught me how to swim, Kim.

I don't know how to swim." Brian and Mariska both tried to teach me how to swim and float, and they both gave up. They were both like, "I don't know what's wrong with you." 

Mariska Breland: You're just like a, like clearly you're a rock. But one thing I wanted 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: to say- And my sister said Kaylin can't float either, and she's got a little- Oh, interesting

she's got a butt. She, well, she's tiny, but I was like, "Maybe it's our butts." 

Mariska Breland: Maybe that's where the rock is. Yeah. But one thing, like, you and I are 100% aligned on is our never-ending frustration with other people not doing shit fast. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Ugh. '

Mariska Breland: Cause we're like, "Why is that taking so... Like, I could have that done in a day."

I know. Like, give me that, I'll do it immediately. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I think we've gotten a little bit more patient. Not a lot. 

Mariska Breland: Not 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: very much. But a little bit. And it's so funny, we're both married. They don't listen. Your Brian and my Brian will not listen to this podcast. 

Mariska Breland: No. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Okay, both of our Brians move at a Brian pace.

Mariska Breland: Like, we were going to the beach this morning where I swam in the ocean, like- Yeah ... far out into the ocean because I can swim. It's, like, my one thing where I'm just like, I have one physical activity that I will always be better at than Meghann. And that is swimming. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: You do have better foot mobility than me despite MS.

That is 

Mariska Breland: true. That is true. I do have better foot mobility. Oh, god. So I was... You know, I'm never late, like ever, and so we were picking my friend Stacy up, and Brian was, like, being slow. Poor Brian. And I'm just like, like, "Oh, my God, I'm gonna 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: drip." Me too. Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: Even though we're like five minutes late- That's-

but I'm not late. I know. So I'm just like, "

Meghann Koppele Duffy: We're gonna be late." But again, in those instances when it comes to patience, they're... We're the rocks. You're the rock on that. Like, it's... I just, I feel like, hey, I didn't, I didn't want this, I didn't want this episode to circle around partnerships. I thought it was gonna circle around resiliency, but I think you got to the point really fast with one word.

I didn't think we had to go there anymore and pontificate- Yeah ... and beat a dead horse, and you know I'm good at beating a dead horse. Um, I feel like my takeaway from this episode is resilience is what you make it. Um, try to be more adaptable. 

Mariska Breland: Adaptation. Yep. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: And find your feather or find your rock 

Mariska Breland: And I do think that if you can, if you are lucky enough in life to be able to be in a business partnership rather than going it alone, I would hate going it alone.

Like, it w- and, you know, we always talk about our meet cute about how I really tried hard to push Meghann away. To not like me . To not, like, let Meghann into my life. Tried real hard. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: You are my sister. It's so funny. It, it, I, yeah . 

Mariska Breland: But, you know, it's like I think that probably neither one of us would have gotten where we are without the other person, um, playing a role in that.

And- You 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: asked me that recently. Do you remember? When we had that tough conversation when you were moving to Malta, you were like, "Do you wanna do this by yourself?" And I said, with zero hesitation, "I've thought about it before, but I don't. I don't." Yeah. I think there's beauty. I think you bring so much to the table.

I think you support me in a way that is good. I, I joke you remind me a lot of my sister. It, it's a compliment, um, not an insult, um, in the sense of Like he's some- I c- I remember the first time it happened. I overheard you talking about me to someone, and I was kind of like, "Hmm." And it, it was, I, I teased my sister.

I'm like, "You know, you can sometimes say those nice things to me," and you say lovely things to me all the time, but it, it's, it's an, it made me feel seen. You know I'm a words of affirmation person. Yeah. It, it felt good to be seen, and I think over time I had to see you, I've had to see you in multiple facets.

I've had to see you when you had liver tumors, and we thought it was cancer, and then breast cancer, of treating you like Mariska, not somebody with a condition, not somebody sick, 'cause you weren't. These were just aspects. So you've, you, I think you've m- you have made me a better person and to see people deeper.

That I think we see people on the surface. It's so much easier to see them on the surface, man. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. I think, too, it's like people say this all the time, and they don't really mean it, but it's like we are like family. Like, when I had my breast cancer- Oh ... diagnosis, it's like Meghann... So if you have breast cancer or anything like that, you want Meghann to come to your doctor's appointments with you, because Meghann is going to remember everything and also ask questions that maybe you forgot, and then you could talk about, like- And 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: then I 

Mariska Breland: can be that cop

remember that first woman? Yeah, remember that first woman we saw and we, like, but she was dressed really fabulously? Yeah. And so she had, like, a really good aesthetic, but she was, like, a no. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Oh, that's, I 

Mariska Breland: see your breast surgeon. And then we met the other doctor. Give 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: her a shout-out. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah, Dr. De La Cruz at Georgetown.

Ah. Just, like- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Best doctor ... 

Mariska Breland: Meghann 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: met her with me I've never been more impressed with a doctor. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah, amazing. When a doctor- Amazing ... gives you their cellphone number and times that you are allowed to text them every single day, that, I'm, I'm like, how do you not- It was just how she- ... choose that doctor? 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: It, you know, for me, even more, I'm sure that was fabulous as a patient, but when she said the d- talked to you through the direct implant procedure and I asked her, "Why are more people not doing it?"

'Cause she said, "People don't wanna learn. This is the premier technique. It's better. People are antiquated." Like, she basically was like, "I'm the best at this," but she didn't have to say it. Yeah. She described it so simply. She knew her shit, and she, she was an example of a woman leading with confidence, not arrogance.

It was really impressive- Yeah ... to see. Really impressive.

Mariska Breland: Yeah, she is sort of the perfect example of that because she like w- she's like one of those prodigy type people that like graduated medical school like 21 or something. And then she just- Mm ... studied everywhere and learned these techniques, and it's like the, the plastic surgeon, 'cause you have two surgeons if you're having, um, a mastectomy with reconstruction.

Like the plastic surgeon, who's literally the president of like Georgetown Hospital at this point, was like, "Oh, she's a way better doctor than me." And I'm like- Yeah ... "You're like the head guy." And he's like, "Yeah." Yeah. I mean, he's technically her boss. So if 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: you have 

Mariska Breland: breast 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: cancer or know anybody who does, Dr.,

uh, De La Cruz in DC. 

Mariska Breland: Yep. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Amazing. So I could sit here for another three hours, but I try to keep these all at 45 minutes, and we've already gone over, but, you know, whatever. You're interesting. 

Mariska Breland: I am so 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: interesting. Did you... I asked, I always ask family and friends, uh, kind of a bonus question and, and I ask my parents what would they have asked their parents.

Is there any question you wanna ask me? 

Mariska Breland: Um 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: We'll say I didn't think about questions for you. Yeah. 

Mariska Breland: So

What would you say to someone who s- says to you, it's like, "Oh, Mariska is so inspiring." What would you say to them when you know that I don't like that?

Meghann Koppele Duffy: But what I say to someone who says, "Oh, Mariska's so inspiring." 

Mariska Breland: And I'm not there. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I'm like- I would say her inspiration is the least interesting thing about her I would encourage you to get to know her a little bit more and look at her history and the things that she's accomplished. And I think the one thing you should take from her is her adaptability.

I wouldn't have answered that question, I like the idea of the adaptability. I would've probably used the word resilient previously. I like the word adaptability more. I think with my clients, how do I always introduce my client Gary and Nick? I say, "Hey, he had a stroke when he was 13, he had a stroke when he was 20.

Eh, that's the least interesting thing about them." I think your MS, I think your breast cancer, I think your broken leg, your liver tumors, the fact that you have a hitch in your giddyup are the least interesting things about you. So I would ask them maybe what inspires, what, what inspires you so much about her?

The fact that, uh, she's an artist and can draw you? Or her adaptability? I, I think I would ask them a question, um, to figure out what they really mean and to help them see you in a deeper way. Because just saying you're inspiring is lazy, it's lame, and it minimizes your life experience and other people's.

So I feel like even my answer had anger behind it. I, I, I just, I- 

Mariska Breland: I, I mean, I do- It's kind of bothers me ... like now that you were saying that, now that you're saying that though I was like, I think, 'cause you know I have my whole thing about like the dumb stuff people will say to you. It's like, oh, my- Yeah

so-and-so has MS and died. That's kind of what led me to 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: question one. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. But it's like I think that people say you're inspiring 'cause they don't think they could handle what you've handled. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Hell 

Mariska Breland: yeah. And I'm like, but you haven't had to, so you don't know what you could do if you never had to do it, you know?

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I also think it's, what's the word I'm looking for, Mariska? You know I'm not always good with words, is, um, it's, it's almost, is it the word patronizing? 

Mariska Breland: It is a little patronizing. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Like, "Oh, Meghann's so cute." 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I'm cute? Like when I, like, oh, a fam- uh, I'm not gonna call her out, but a family member's like, "When you talk about science it's so cute."

I'm like, what? This is when I was kind of younger. I just, I feel like when they say it's, you're inspirational, it just feels patronizing. Why do I hear it like that? 'Cause maybe we've talked about it. 

Mariska Breland: Yeah. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: Does that make sense? Yeah. Am I using the right word? I 

Mariska Breland: think so. Yeah, no, I think so, because I think it's like, you know, I, people a lot of times, not so much anymore, not the people I surround myself with- Yeah

but especially early on I would have people all the time be like, "How's your health?" And I'm like- Oh, how's, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: they whisper how's your health. How's your health? 

Mariska Breland: And I'm like, well, you know, like today my foot's a little bit more swollen than it was yesterday, and I don't really know why. And- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: It's a different 

Mariska Breland: shade of 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: purple.

Mariska Breland: Right. And it's like- It hurts a little bit. It's like, to me, it's such a boring conversation. Like- 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: That's, okay, that's it. It's not necessarily patronizing, it's boring. Right. I would like people to elevate small talk to medium. We don't have to go heavy, but it's a quote Larry David, "Let's elevate small talk to medium."

So would it be better if somebody, rather than someone say, "Mariska, you're so inspiring," to say, "Mariska, would you share with me some better ways to be adaptable?" Or is that a lame question? No, 

Mariska Breland: I think, like, I, I mean, I really think that the reason that I started writing a memoir and then finished it was because I was processing how, p- processing all the things that had happened- Mm-hmm

but also how I felt about them, because I don't feel my feelings normally. So, um- But 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: you are now- 

Mariska Breland: But, like- ... 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: through the written word, through your art ... 

Mariska Breland: right. So it's like, this is how I felt about this situation, and it's like, I, you know, it's like what do women want to be inspiring over? And we've talked about, like, my lotions and potions and whatever, and it's like, 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: you know- You want someone to say you have amazing skin, not that you're inspiring

and, like, 

Mariska Breland: like, it's the Korean d- skincare stuff. But, you know- Oh, my God ... it's like that's m- Yeah ... I mean, I'm still that same person- Mariska, what do you 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: wanna be known for? My great skin and hair 

Mariska Breland: Yes. Really. That's, that's it. Just, you know. Oh, my 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: God. Well, I, I so appreciate you doing this, sharing a little bit more about yourself.

I hope you guys learn more about Mariska. I, I c- I also wanted to share about the partnership and the difficult conversations, 'cause people o- a- you know, see all the good stuff, and honestly, 95 or 97% of our interactions are positive, and even those hard conversations have been the biggest growth and learning experiences that college and any course could teach you.

But you know what I just realized? And I wanna close on this. Dude, talk therapy would never work for you. Remember when we decided, you're like, "Meg, you're, I learn through talking. You learn by writing, think- putting things in your own word." It's amazing. Yeah. I'm so glad you write- wrote this memoir. I, I can't wait to read it.

Um, and thank you for all your contributions to the world, and, uh, to me and my life 

Mariska Breland: Thank you. I will be pebbling you with some Instagrams, I'm sure, before the day is over. So you're not done hearing from me. 

Meghann Koppele Duffy: I will expect it. And enjoy those two dog posts. I will. So thank you so much, Mariska. And guys, if you have any questions for Mariska, for myself, or wanna know more about her art background, the fuse ladder, how to create a piece of equipment, how to patent it, how to sell it, how to run an online business, um, reach out to Mariska.

Book some time with her. Pay for her expertise. She's got a lot of knowledge in that head that is covered by beautiful skin and beautiful hair.

I love you. Love you too. All right. Bye, babe